Other Voices - Catholics for Ministry

IN THIS SECTION WE HAVE TRIED TO GATHER MATERIAL FROM OVERSEAS AND AUSTRALIA ON THE ISSUES ABOUT WHICH CATHOLICS FOR MINISTRY ARE CONCERNED

FIRST - the following letter about married priesthood and Church reform was written by 110 committed Catholic lay men and women in Brazil and was originally published in Portuguese in Folha de S. Paolo on 28 September 2007 with an introduction signed by Carlos Alberto Roma, a former Franciscan seminarian.
Interestingly, the letter links the issues of priestly celibacy and the active participation of divorced, remarried Catholics in the Eucharist. These issues are increasingly linked around the world as elements in the reform of the church. It also gives some interesting statistics on priest to people ratios. Here is the letter:

An Open Letter to Pope Benedict XVI
Your Holiness, As lay Catholics, our disatisfaction with the insensitivity of the hierarchy of our Church - that is, the Vatican - is growing.

The basic problem is the explicit lack of courage to take the necessary steps towards moving the Church into the 21st century, especially opening it to lay people.

We are taking a theological formation course. We are 110 lay people. After reflecting on Jesus' courage and actions in the face of the religion of his time - using Br. Carlos Mesters' book "Com Jesus na Contramão" as a basic text - we have decided to draft a letter to Your Holiness and the entire Roman Curia:

We are ever more motivated to serve God through our Church. In spite of this, we are suffering a lot because successive priests who function in our parish have a serious problem: As much as they try to motivate the young men of today, they are not inspired to enter seminary to serve as priests. We have also noted this problem in the old continent (Europe) and have found that the situation there is even more dire.

We lay people ask forgiveness for daring to send this letter directly to Your Holiness, without going through the proper channels. It's a very delicate matter and local [church] authorities do not have permission to discuss it. We are asking for this discussion to begin. During our Sunday celebrations, we have asked brothers and sisters in the parish and have found that over 95% understand that the Church needs to take new steps.

Brazil has the lowest ratio of Catholic priests in the world, according to the Centro de Estadística Religiosa e Investigações Sociais. Whereas in Brazil there are 18,685 priests (1 for every 10,000 people), in Italy there is 1 for every 1,000. In [the rest of] Latin America, the problem is also obvious. Argentina has 1 priest for every 6,800 people, and in Colombia there is 1 for every 5,600 people. The average for Mexico - the second most Catholic country in the world - is the one that comes closest to Brazil's: 1 priest for every 9,700 people.

With the huge scarcity of priests, confirmed by studies in every country in the world, we are asking ourselves: why not admit married men and women into the priesthood and readmit married priests into service in the Church?

We know there have been 39 married Popes historically. The first was Peter the Apostle (Luke 4:38-39).

According to research by the Centro de Estadística Religiosa e Investigações Sociais (CERIS) published 1/31/06, there are about 5,000 married priests in Brazil who cannot exercise their ministry. Most of these men feel the vocation to the priesthood beating strongly in their hearts. Isn't this an act of violence against the Lord of Life who sent missionaries for the labor?

Catholic priests were permitted to marry in the first millenium of the Christian era. It was the first two Lateran Councils in 1123 and 1139 that instituted priestly celibacy and abolished marriage for priests. The current times call us to make a courageous review and change our paradigms. We are asking Your Holiness to create a commission that also includes lay men and women to study and resolve four issues:

1) The development of two models of priesthood: a) celibate and b) married, with specific canonical norms for each state.

2) The development of a female priesthood with two modalities: a) celibate and b) married with specific norms for each state.

3) The reintegration of married men who still have a vocation into service in the Church.

4) Review the problem of Christians in second marriages and their participation in the Eucharist.

With respect to the above reflections, we feel called to an egalitarian participation in the journey of Church life, especially its future. We want to express our thoughts and expectations, stating that it is essential that the Church hierarchy hear our cry.

Will the hierarchy of our Catholic Church continue to be indifferent? Or will it be open to the Holy Spirit and step up? We cannot go backwards anymore in this debate. Are we perhaps lacking "ecclesial will" or "political decisiveness"?

We are proposing that all the cardinals, bishops, priests and lay people who work in the pastoral movements initiate this debate in their areas and have a thorough discussion of the issues above.
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SEAN FAGAN, S.M. Church Renewal or Church Reform? From the Irish periodical Doctrine and Life (May 2007)

          The Second Vatican Council was an extraordinary experience for the Church, opening doors and windows for a new inpouring of light, life and hope from the Holy Spirit. The immediate aftermath of the Council was a period of excitement as we looked forward to a renewed Church and struggled to make it a reality. Over four decades later we are still discussing liturgy and how to make it meaningful, but overall there are few signs of the new life promised by the Council.
          Dominican Fr. André Lascaris reminded us of this with his informative article on the situation of the Catholic Church in Holland[1]. He reports that only 8.6% of Dutch Catholics now go to church regularly and it is expected that by the year 2020 72% of the population will not be a member of any church. He notes that at present parishes cannot survive without the work of numerous laypeople, most of them women. The policy of the bishops seems focused on promoting vocations of priests in the Tridentine tradition, and too often the few that come are of a poor intellectual quality, conservative men not used to thinking critically. Parishes are reduced in number or clustered so that one priest is responsible for two, three or more. The situation is similar in most other European countries apart from Poland, and in North America.
          On a world scale, however, the picture is much more positive. In 1900, Catholics numbered 459 million, of whom 392 million were in Europe and North America, with just 67 million in the rest of the world. In 2000 the picture was quite different, with 1.1 billion Catholics in the world, of whom 380 million were in Europe and North America and 800 in the global South.
          A surprising statistic is the growth of adult conversions to Christianity, especially in Africa. Between 1970 and 1985, some 4,300 people a day were leaving Christian churches in Europe and North America, but in the same period there were 16,500 people a day converting to Christianity in Africa. Many bishops in Europe are happy to have priests from Africa to fill parish vacancies, but this is only a stop-gap solution on a small scale and it has its own problems. A new concern is the large number of Catholics in Latin America leaving the Church to join charismatic and fundamentalist churches.

          DIMINISHING NUMBERS
          Church leaders in the Vatican and around the world are now frantically searching for a solution to the problem of diminishing numbers of believing faithful and of priests to minister to them. Renewed liturgy, bible study, and other attempts at renewal have failed to produce the miracle. Perhaps we need to step back and take a deeper look at the problem, see the wider picture.
          Vatican II was to be a new spring that would bring new life and real renewal. The Council did excellent work and its documents are still inspiring. It was fortunate in having input from some of the world's best theologians, and many of the bishops learned a lot from it. But its weakness was that its focus was simply on the renewal and updating of the existing Church of the 1960s. It was taken for granted that the Church had its roots in the gospel and was built on the solid rock of almost 2000 years of Tradition. But some of the darker aspects of its history were quietly forgotten in a kind of reform by amnesia, and little attempt was made to adjust its teaching to modern developments in theology and scripture studies.
          Our modern Church is still happy with its feeling of absolute certainty, seeing itself as the rock of ages in a world of uncertainty. But our gospel roots would be more credible if we had a little more humility and were willing to examine how many negative realities the Church acquireed down the centuries. Constant repetition of the phrase ‘we are not a democracy' reinforced its tendency to behave more and more like an autocracy, so that it is now more centralised than ever.
          It could help us to acquire a sense of proportion if we situate the history of Christianity within the age of the universe - 13.7 billion years. We cannot grasp such a figure, but if we think of it as a single year of the 365 days on a calendar we can get some idea of the overall picture by dating some of the outstanding events of its history. If our universe began on January 1^st, the Milky Way came into existence on 7^th February, and our earth was born on the 14^th August. September 4^th saw the first signs of life on planet earth. The dinosaurs appeared on the 25^th of December and were extinct by the 30^th of that month. The first humans as we know them appeared at two minutes to midnight on December 31^st and Jesus of Nazareth was born at two seconds to midnight on that last day. On the world scale of God's creation, the 2000 years of Christian history are equivalent to two seconds.
          To imagine that all of this magnificent reality is the result of chance is an insult to intelligence. We Christians believe that it was created by the being we call God and we see it as an expression of his love. Our response is awe and wonder, inspiring praise and thanksgiving.
          Our Christian faith leads us to accept a further outpouring of God's love in the person of Jesus, who became one of us. His words of love and peace and his healing ministry gave new meaning to human life and the promise of an eternal destiny. His resurrection from the dead cannot be proved scientifically, but it was accepted in faith by those who witnessed his many appearances to individuals and groups. These first believers met in groups to share their faith and to experience his sacramental presence as they responded to his invitation to ‘do this in memory of me.' For three centuries they had no civil recognition as a religion, they could not build churches, and they were often savagely persecuted and martyred. These simple groups increased and multiplied as Christian communities, and today's Catholic Church traces its origins back to them.
          But the Church we have today is a much more complex reality, comprising many elements that were unknown in the early Church. The biggest challenge to the Church today is to relativise our false absolutes, to be a little more humble in recognising our past. Vatican II was quite realistic in speaking of the Church as always in need of reform - Ecclesia semper reformanda,.

          GLORIES AND OVER-SIMPLIFICATIONS IN THE PAST
          Speaking to the bishops of Switzerland recently Pope Benedict warned that we run the risk of the Church's becoming identified with some of its prohibitions concerning abortion, contraception, the ordination of women, etc. He said that we should stress the beauty and the greatness of our faith. In fact, we can indeed recognise that our Church has had a glorious history, but also a sinful one. It is a history of success, the oldest and probably the most powerful representative of Christianity in the world. It has been a civilising and spiritualising influence in world history. Down through the centuries its hospitals, schools and social institutions, in spite of their weaknesses, produced an extraordinary amount of good all over the world. Its influence in the worlds of literature, music and art has been immense. It has kept alive the original Christian message of the gospel and continually brought alive the presence of Jesus to millions of people. But we need to remember that most of its institutions were man-made and culturally conditioned - therefore imperfect and in constant need of reform.
          The modern world is very different from that of our parents. At the beginning of the last century the majority of people were illiterate and the local priest was one of the few educated people in the parish.
          Large numbers of laity have now done adult education courses in theology and many of them are far more theologically literate than their clergy. They are only too aware of the many cases of doctrines officially taught for centuries which were eventually, though quietly, given up as false. The temporal power of the popes was defended for centuries as part of Catholic teaching. Pius VI rejected the ‘abominable philosophy of human rights', and especially freedom of religion, of conscience, of the press and the equality of all human beings. Freedom of conscience was dismissed as ‘sheer madness' by Gregory XVI and Pius IX, but solemnly proclaimed as a basic human right by Vatican II. For three hundred years castrati sang in the Sistine Chapel, spanning the reigns of thirty-two popes, but not one of them spoke out against the practice.
          There is nothing in the gospels to show that Jesus consciously founded the Church, or even a church. The basic definition of Church is: the remembering community of the believers in Jesus. The original meaning of Church was simply a local community who met together to do what Jesus had invited them to do and tried to live the ideals he had preached. For three hundred years they met in private houses and the leader of the group for the Celebration would have been someone appointed by an apostle (rarely), or elected by the group, or the owner of the house, who could be a married couple or even a rich widow. It was only half-way through the second century that community leaders were put in charge of a community with the laying on of hands, to lead the Eucharistic Celebration. Jesus never ordained priests - nor, as a first-century Jew, would he have thought of founding a cultic priesthood.
          What would he say of the thousands of ordained priests in today's Church with no significant ministerial relationship with any Christian community, whose work keeps them continuously bound to administration desks, and who ‘say' Mass alone or for a few domestic servants? Why do the members of the Pope's diplomatic service representing the Vatican to countries around the world need episcopal or priestly ordination? There is something seriously defective about our current theology and practice of priesthood.
          Peter never thought of himself as pope, nor did his immediate successors in Rome. Catholic biblical scholars accept that the famous statement about Peter as the rock on which Jesus would build his church (only in Matthew) is not a saying of the earthly Jesus, but was composed after the Resurrection by the Palestinian community, or later by Matthew's own community. There is no historical proof that Peter was in the modern sense a bishop in Rome, though there is a strong early tradition that he ministered in the city and was martyred there in the 60s, about the same time as Paul.
          Though the gospels present Peter as the leader of the apostles chosen by Jesus, there is no historical proof that he exercised any direct authority over them. With the development of the local Christian communities, they communicated and shared with each other. When disagreements arose, they turned to the bishop of Rome as successor of Peter to settle the arguments. This gave rise to the special ministry of the bishop of Rome as bridge-builder and peace-maker, but there is no historical evidence in the early Church of his exercising the kind of authority which modern popes claim over the bishops, who in spite of being bishops in their own right are treated simply as area managers in the world Church. Vatican II strongly emphasized collegiality for the government of the Church, but no structures were put in place to make this possible, and the practice of secrecy does not help.

         THE MEANING OF MARRIAGE
         The over-50 generation will recall being taught in school that Jesus instituted the sacrament of marriage at the wedding feast of Cana. The thousands of lay women and men studying theology around the country now know that before the eleventh century there was no such thing as a Christian wedding ceremony, nor was marriage considered a sacrament in our modern sense. For hundreds of years it was the civil authority which regulated marriage and divorce among Christians. With the disintegration of civil society Christian leaders gradually took control of marriage legislation, leading to our present situation.
         This was a healthy development, of the Church responding to the needs of the surrounding culture. Responding to cases arising from the missionary success of the Church in pagan lands, the Church further adapted its laws to incorporate the Pauline privilege, and what is called the Petrine privilege ‘in favour of the faith'. Present teaching and canon law is that the pope has no power to dissolve a marriage which is valid, sacramental (between Christians) and consummated (even if only through one drunken act of forced sex). But, for the spiritual benefit of the Christian in break-up situations, the pope has the power to dissolve what are called ‘natural marriages', which means the majority of marriages throughout the world. Pope John Paul II constantly preached that ‘divorce is contrary to natural law, contrary to justice, and contrary to the commandment of Christ'; but during his pontificate there were thousands of dissolutions of these marriages, processed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, headed by the then cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, our new pope. The canon law on these cases is not secret and the statistics are publicly available.
         In the course of its history (glorious and also sinful) the Church has tried to balance ideal and reality, sometimes but not always successfully. We need a courageous fresh study of the problem, going beyond tidy housekeeping and the fear of scandal to a renewal of our theology, keeping in mind that so many faithful committed Catholics are saddened that our official Church shows little sign of the humility that is a core value of our Christian faith.
         A related problem is the Church's current discipline barring from Communion couples living in a second union. This discipline changes the nature of the Eucharist from a sacrament for the forgiveness of sins to a reward for good behaviour.
         The above are simply a few examples to show the Church's need not for a renewal of some of our defective practices out of touch with modern theology and scripture studies, but the deeper need for reformation. A difficulty is our hesitation in using the word ‘reformation' since this was a bad word for the past 500 years of our history. We might reflect on the fact that although Luther was officially condemned for his views on justification and faith, the Lutheran and Catholic Churches have recently reached agreement on this topic (ironically helped in no small measure by the magisterial study of Hans Küng on the subject). Perhaps Luther's views might have caused less concern had he not at the same time loudly criticised the papacy for its un-gospel life-style.
         Those who find any call for reform disturbing may be consoled by the words of Archbishop John Quinn:
‘History ... shows that far from being an idea foreign or inimical to the Church, reform has been a constant and recurring theme, from the eleventh-century Popes Leo IX and Gregory VII down to John Paul II. The failures of the Church in the second millennium... have been due not so much to reform within the Church as to the lack of timely reform, the failure to weigh carefully enough the signs of the times, and the failure to act in time.'[2]

[1] André Lascaris, O.P., A Church without the Eucharist? Doctrine & Life, March 2007, pp. 46-60.
[2] Quinn, J.R, The Reform of the Papacy: The Costly Call to Christian Unity, New York: Herder and Herder, 1999, pp. 43-4.

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This is what some Catholics who signed the Petition on-line have said - a kind of voice of the faithful in action

* The Catholic Church without priests will wither away. We ask the bishops not to allow this to happen. We need holy priests now; whether celibate or married. It is the first duty of the bishops of the Church to provide for the sacramental needs of the faithful. Please God, may the bishops not fail the Church now by being afraid to speak up at this urgent time

* I view this petition as important not only for its stated objectives but in providing moral support to the majority of our bishops in rejuvenating the Catholic Church in this country.

* Let us pray that the Bishops will be open to conversation on these matters rather than using their authoritarian method of closing all discussion.

* Give us bread, not stones!

****Perhaps the most challenging message came in the form of an email from a parish priest who commented...

I put out the hard copy of the appeal for parishioners to sign and will send it to the address you indicated. I didn't sign it myself and wanted instead to write to you. The appeal challenges me in lots of ways. I unconsiously and consciously have lived off the idea that the priest was 'special', a bit like belonging to the Melbourne Club! Can't have anyone become members. Must keep the women out. We have made a lot of sacifices, especially celibacy. Next the women will be running the place.

This emotional place is defended by a theology that, like the kalashnikov, is still quite effective: the natural order of things, the distinctiveness of male and female, the tradition of the church, the sacramental nature of the church and ontological distinctiveness of the priesthood. The enemy is subjectivism, relativism, secularism. Priesthood is the final battleground. Once it goes, so does the church as it has existed since the Reformation.

My concern with the appeal is that it doesn't question the old model of priesthood. It asks that the door be opened to married men and women. All these people will end up in the Club and find that it is quite nice. The old order will remain. It's shuffling the deckchairs. I'm not sure that, like the alcoholic, we have to let the church collapse before there is a new life. The waiting alllows a lot of new energies to emerge.

The catalyst for the appeal is the unavailability of the mass for many people. Another way of saying this is that we don't have enough priests to keep the old model going. Do we want to? Is this really the issue? Are we not more mobile now? Do people need a weekly mass? My aging mother found mass for you at home on TV satisfying. Do we keep giving drink to the alcoholic? If priests were less encumbered and more mobile and there were other ministries flourishing in the communities, would we need more priests?

Am I am still listening to the church, its leaders. Is it a death rattle? Or is there a treasure it is guarding against the world? Is there some deeper renewal that we are all being called to? There is, of course, and that doesn't negate the appeal. I am cautious enough not to trust myself or the world. The appeal raises many issues that are hotly contested within the church: the sacraments, authority in the church, ecclesiology just to begin naming some. It threatens to do the one thing that church leaders have most feared since the Reformation: split the church. I suspect this is the reason JP11 asked that the book be closed. I'm sure that Rome is looking to the Anglicans and thanking its lucky stars that it's head is firmly in the sand!

* Perhaps the most important and practical suggestion made by this petition is the call for the establishment of a "training program for ministry". The Anglican Church has an excellent model in its "Education for Ministry" course, which all ministers, lay and ordained, are required to complete. The implementation of a similar program in Catholic parishes covering scripture, doctrine, Church history, and practical theology would ensure that all ministers (especially the many lay ministers who are increasingly fulfilling leadership roles) have a high level of theological and pastoral expertise.

* Bishops need to take their heads out of the sand. and be actively considering what options are available.

* I believe many are called to a vocation of priesthood, but not to be single and celebate.

* Which is more important: a male celebate clergy or the availability of the Eucharist?

* The issue here is not having more vocations, but justice and equality for all the children of God, having the right to make the Eucharist the center of their lives by celebrating and receiving it as often as they can.

* Jesus was not constrained by old ideas when they'd had their use-by date

* The petition is couched in moderate language reflecting real pastoral concern and love for the Church. It's worthy of consideration.

* Let us live in a way that is true to the heart of our tradition

* I am in my mid-seventies, and am now retired. Unless something is done, I cannot imagine the Church in Australia being able to exist as potent religious force in our nation for much longer. The Varican doesn't seem to realise even that there is a problem, probably because so many priests are in Rome in various administrative and curial positions.

* We are a sacramental tradition; I implore you to listen to the voice of the People of God who cry out to their shepherds.

* I heartily endorsed this petition and hope that our Bishops will be truly prophetic in their response to the present needs of the Australian Church.

* So sad that so much talent has already been lost, with so much intellectual, cultural and spiritual capital squandered. Many of those inspired by Vatical II are now ageing. Though supportive of the petition, simply extending a hierarchical priesthood into the future with married priests will not meet future needs and may result in problems to do with clerical status and authority remaining unaddressed.

* The question we need to ask ourselves as Australian Catholics is do we sit back and do nothing about the crises of leadership and pastoral care in our church or do we attempt to do something about it. This is a small attempt to do something.

* I have been a volunteer worker in my Parish for many years. I have seen the toll taken on our aging priests of the expectations that are placed on them in their role as parish administrators as well as pastoral carers. There is a need for the Bishops to consider as a matter of urgency what leadership roles the laity may be fully involved. In my Parish and Deanery we are working on different models of leadership but it is challenging. Our Bishops must take some calculated risks in addressing these problems and 'experiment' with other forms of Parish Leadership. I have no doubt that there is talent and willingness on the part of parishioners but it takes money and commitment from our Bishops invested in the laity to develop these different leaders.

* I hope and pray the Bishops will truly be open to the Spirit and respond to the needs of our church. It has been a long time coming. Please strongly consider ordination of women. The Spirit calls women to Priesthood - but apparently the spirit is not allowed to be heard by women !!! My prayers are with this conference.

* Let us take down the barriers and let the Spirit do its work

* The petition as it stands is well worth signing, however, there is one glaring omission that cannot go unchallenged: the vocation of gay men in the church. The Vatican recently banned gay men from being ordained, no matter how committed or skilled they might be, simply because they are gay. This is an insult to the countless gay men who have served the church, and still serve the church with generosity and love. It is an insult to the many gay men who continue to be called by the Holy Spirit to ministry and leadership, and it is radically dishonest. Yes, married men should be able to be ordained, as should women. But let's not forget the other category of people banned from priesthood: self-affirming, honest gay men who will not play the charades required to get into seminaries. Please consider adding another line to the petition to this effect.

* The Eucharistic ministry is essential to the nurturing of our Catholic faith. We need to have ministers who can relate to our young people, culturally, scripturally and from a Christ centered perspective of the world we live in, not the one we would like to live in. The practical issues raised in the petition are not put forward as threatening nor are they inherently at odds with the faith life of the Catholic community. The contradictions in the present position on ordination of married men or compulsory celibacy as distinct from voluntary celibacy need to be addressed.

* It makes godly sense to invite the outcastes, ie married and / or female.

* Our Church needs rejuvenating. The time is right. Please go for it, for the sake of ourselves , our children and future generations.

* The Bishops will need great fortitude to tackle Rome head-on and persevere. They have my full support.

* I am a 56 year old, married woman, the mother of three 17-22 year old children. I wholeheartedly support this petition recognising that it is only a beginning step in addressing the fundamental issue of the status of women, of men, of children, of the laity, and of priests in our current church. It is at least a step towards accepting long suppressed dialogue that has not only been oppressively denied for too long but done so in Christ's name. I will continue to pray as I have always done that Christ's will be done on earth. Our dignity as human beings is a god given right that the catholic church must come to address in its core teachings and practices.

* Is mandatory male-only celibacy more important that reasonable access to the Eucharist?

* I, as a young member of the Catholic church, strongly believe that these issues need to be addressed and cannot go on being ignored!

* I find it hypocritical that we already accept married ministers from other religions as priests, two in Melbourne to my knowledge but not those from within the church!!!!!!!!!!

* AT LAST women are being considered.

* I believe that the Catholic Church hierarchy should seriously consider the possibility of ordaining and accepting married men and women as eligible candidates for the priesthood.

* Of course priests should be allowed to marry. The were at the time of the apostles.

* It is important that the Church welcomes back those men who have left the priesthood because of this man imposed rule that married men cannot be ordained to the priesthood. As stated in the partition, the Church welcomes ministers from the Anglican faith.

* The petition makes sense; the church needs to 'take a risk' and go into new territory subject to all the wisdom of its history and its current members

* Overseas' priests are not acceptable

* Married priests were part of the earlier church and obviously local decisions were made to change practice then - why can't this occur now? Clear guidelines need to be in place so that acceptable people are considered. The first group should be those men who were ordained and left because they loved a woman not because they fell out of love with their original vocation. Women priests should also be part of this consideration. With so few priests in ministry now, pressure is on those serving who are rapidly aging and the communities they serve have had their contact/ services cut back dramatically. The Church must plan for a future with new thinking if it is to last.

* This petition needs our support. The Bishops need to hear our real concerns for the future of the church and we know the church cannot be relevant by refusing to read the signs of the times.

* News of the Resurrection was first spread by the women - a sign that they were the first true believers and the ones chosen by God to tell others. Now is the time for women and married people to return to the origins of our Church as priests. Everyone is entitled to be able to receive all seven Sacraments.

* I fully agree. May the Holy Spirit power be evident & let it happen

* Please listen to the community of the Body of Christ in the Laity. Let there be openness to the Spirit of the Age. Let us enter the 'new' with Vision based on Tradition. Let us follow Christ who dared to challenge, question and embrace the 'New' .

* Immediate attention required if the Catholic Church is going to continue in Australia. Even committed Catholics are losing faith in today's Church hierarchy.

* Dandenong Ranges (Victoria- Melbourne Archdiocese) has five churches one priest. I would like to honour the role of women in our church by seeking to include them as candidates for priesthood

* It's a great pity that the authors of the petition seem to place a lower priority on the ordination of women than the ordination of married men. Recognition of women's full human rights and capacity to contribute in all areas is so hard for so many men. I support the ordination of women not because of the critical shortage of (male) priests but because it's fitting and just to do so.

* In 1972, I was laicized after eight years serving the church in the priesthood. I have been following my priestly vocation in many ways since, but not sacramentally. In 2005 I was appointed by the Archbishop to be a prison chaplain. I have found my work amongst Christ's poor and the most rejected by our society to be a fulfilment of my priestly vocation. My true fulfilment of this vocation, I pray, will be the day when I can minister to them sacramentally as well.

* We are a large family of Catholics; 9 children, 32 grandchildren and this concern has been discussed again and again. We are afraid that we are losing our best priests and the life of the church has been placed in jeopardy by a rigid rule that is outdated and not in keeping with the other churches nor with modern society and spiritual needs.

* My prayer is for the full acceptance of this appeal; my hope is that those ordained men who are presently shut out will, if they wish , return to full ministry in our ailing church; my vision is that women be included in all considerations.

*I cannot articulate enough the sadness I feel as we continue to loose Good people. Please hear us and be open to us in Love with outstretched arms. Be open to the Holy Spirit who is stirring today's Australian Church. We do not have a crisis of what to teach but, I do believe we are a church in crisis. Let us together move forward.

* If Jesus is God and Man, He will have the best-ever sense of humour as well as being the best-ever risk-taker. Come on Papa Benedicto-take a risk , mate !

* Vatican II talked about the sense of the faithful - is this not an example?

* We are sure that in Australia today Jesus would welcome the inclusion of the optionally celibate, the married and women as clergy to celebrate Eucharist and administer the sacraments. May the Holy Spirit guide the Bishops to respond positively to this petition.

* Current clergy do not understand what the Church (us the laity) are telling them.

* How long will it take for the church to accept the inevitable. "Church" as a Magisterial institution was a creation of the Roman Empire, not of Jesus. "Traditional Catholicism" as understood by most 'conservatives' is a mediaeval creation bearing no similarity with the church described in the Acts of the Apostles. Men, and women who are called to serve the church as priests should be actively encouraged.

* There are numerous lay people in our communities that are capable of doing the job.

* To have a 'Mother Church' which fails to address its inability to nurture and adequately support its members, makes the nomenclature an oxymoron. Why is the spirit being suppressed and repressed when there is so much love, concern, frustration and grief within the wider unchurched catholic community. Many of us would love to serve and be actively involved in the life of our church, but the doors are closed to us. the Bishops need to take positive action to channel and embrace these willing people who feel rejected - in God's Name.

* As a young catholic woman who is currently part of the 'drift away' I support these moves to encourage more diverse ministry roles in the hope that there will be space for myself and others like me within the catholic church of the future

* Isn't it time that the half of humanity who have traditionally done the hard work in the Parishes ceased to be excluded from the ordained ministry? I can see no place in scripture where testicles are a requirement for authority, -- except in the tradition of patriarchy which has nothing to do with genuine Christianity. Even Paul insists on the equality of the sexes in some of his writings; -- equality of responsibility at least, and if that is supposed to cop-exist with inequality of authority then we have to question the justice of the situation. If God is not just, . . . as the Greeks reasoned.

* We need to act now. The situation is serious but it will get worse as the number of priests decrease and the need for pastoral support increases. The pool has to be enlarged.

* I agree with the statements made in this petition but would like no. 3 to read "take practical steps to ordain suitably qualified women and married men". I believe this petition is timely, not just because of the decreasing numbers of priests but because of the decreasing numbers of people who feel the Church is failing in remaining relevant for them. Not all priests suit all people and in choosing its ministers from the large and varied laity already serving it well, it will be enriched with the knowledge and experience these wonderful people can bring to role of leadership as a Priest .

* There is an urgent need for local priests; many priests who have come from overseas countries (e.g. Neo-Catechumen members) have had no training in Cross Cultural Studies; they can behave/preach in very inappropriate ways.

* I think Jesus would sign this petition.

* Jesus' teaching regularly exposed the self serving and mindless rule-following of the Jewish hierarchy in His time. We are there again - especially if we continue to assert that we are the one true Church. Where has our faith and humility gone? As for Hope....

* Celibacy is a gift and therefore should be voluntary and / or optional for admission to the secular priesthood. As in other professions, it would be very refreshing for priests to represent a variety of callings concomitant with their living of clerical service. Suitable and dedicated married men, former priests, and also women should be equally considered to render this service to our people of God. Didn't St. Paul assert that the faithful were no longer bound by slavery or freedom, maleness or femaleness in relation to their suitability to participate according to their gifts in the life of the Church? It certainly appears to have had a positive effect upon the ministries of other Christian churches. It would be good to see that sentiment put into actual effect, and it may even initiate significant responses in Faith matters in relation to issues that really matter.

* Matthew 18:20 states "when two or three are gathered in my name" Thus we the participants are the church. This is a time that requires deep reflection, accompanied by frank and honest discussion we should all pray that the bishops be guided to a solution that is inclusive to all the church and secure the way forward for the establishment. Maybe an impact study will gain the insight of the majority of the church body would help illuminate the way forward

* The situation has become critical and currently the church is acting in its typical fashion of burying its head in the sand. Married men do not breach any parts of the New Testament. the world needs more competent clergy no the current disgrace that currently exists. The world that existed when Vatican II was released has changed. Remember that once the pope was married.

* I fully support this petition in the hope that open discussion will take place at this next meeting of bishops.

* I certainly consider that the points you raised are so obviously apparent that it seems incredible that they are not the subject of major International and national church reflection. The options are numerous. I am grateful to Bishop Pat Power who has taken the matters seriously and publicly.

* It is a confounding irony that the Roman Church should be so resistant at this time in history to the idea of Eucharistic leaders other than celibate male ordained priests. Eucharistic communities would not have been established in Rome without the apostolic leadership of women and married couples, apostles directly appointed by the risen Jesus. (cf. Rom 16:1-16; 1 Cor 15:7-8; 16:19; Acts 18:2-3, 18-19, 26; Eph 2:19-20; 2 Tim 4:19).

* I don't see the problem with women being ordained. The Catholic Church has been ordaining old women for years. They have just been of the other sex

* Yes there is a shortage of priests. We also have the problem of unsuitable or the wrong type of males being ordained, with a spirituality that is so different to the general community, that they cause Catholics to leave the Church rather than build a sense of inclusive, modern spiritual community. All Christians should be encouraged and allowed to fully participate in the ministry of the local parish.

* Ask yourselves seriously: what will the state of the Catholic Church in Australia be in 10/15/20 years time if no action is taken? We need immediate action on this issue.

* A celibate priesthood has been a great good for the Western Church but is not an essential of Catholic life. Being able to "Do this in memory of me" every Sunday is indispensable to that life.

* Put an end to parishes sharing priests and amalgamating parishes

* The church began with married men in its ministry which lasted until the medieval ages. The only reason for legislating change was to prevent interference from a feudal society. Women were also clearly presidents of the Eucharist for the first 50 years as endorsed by Christ, The present situation rejects the equality laid down in Genesis and Galatians.

* Surely Eucharist is far more important than issues of celibacy and gender, lets focus on a wide inclusion of those who can preside over the sacraments.

* The Eucharist is essential to our Faith. The shortage of priests must end. There are many wonderful priests who have left the active ministry to marry. Their rich experience will be a treasury for the future. Celibacy can still continue for others.

* Having married priests is inevitable, and it would be beneficial to have priests who experience dynamics of marriage, like the parishioners. Ukrainian Cath church has allowed for this for a long time.

* The Church has thrown away their Priests and have lost a great wealth of knowledge, training and commitment to serve God.

* This is so long overdue, it is laughable if it was not so serious. And to think that all our lives we have been reared on the importance of the Eucharist.

* It seems to me that the traditional view of the Eucharist is that its institution leads back to the last supper. No where can I find any reference to whenever two or three of you are gathered WITH A PRIEST present... We are all called to priesthood. There should be no distinction among us, gentile, jew, woman or man, only those with the gifts of the Spirit set free to spread the Good News, to heal and to serve.

* Jesus didn't discriminate - Why should the Australian Bishops !

* I have not used my real name because I work for a Catholic agency and have no wish to undermine the position of its Director, who I greatly respect and admire. Like many Bishops, he has to walk the tight rope between personal authenticity and love for the church. Like me, he cannot put in jeopardy the organisation, not for his own sake but for the sake of its people and the ministry they perform. A sad but true comment on a hierarchical church where fear reigns

* Reform of Church needs to move from Middle Ages thinking to 21st Century reality. Catholics who remember Vatican 2 had high hopes now the Church is ruled by people who shore up their potentates & are scared to speak out, obviously the new Pope is not going to lead for the 21st Century, but be controlled by Roman Curia, very sad not at all Christ like.

* Ironic that the first asked by Christ to pass on the word of His resurrection were women, yet the last asked by mere men to do that very task are women - and they're still waiting!

* I strongly support the petition and trust it will lead to discussion and action.

* Generally agree with the content, but am disappointed that the first theme for leaders is "to lead" How can leaders lead unless they first listen to the voice and cries of the people, and through group and private prayerful reflection then be in a position to lead.

* I believe that all who are called, whether women or men, married or single, should be given the opportunity to become priests. The Vatican's argument against women priests is unconvincing. There may be a case for following the Greek Orthodox position, where bishops must be celibate, if only because that would align the eastern and western churches and possibly promote ecumenism.

* The Eastern Catholic Church has married priests.

* The matters detailed in the petition cannot be treated as optional material. The Church in Australia is at crisis point. Believe me, I'm in the middle of it!

* There are good people available and willing in Australia without having recourse to India or Africa.

* At long last we, as a body, seem to be challenging the selfish, frozen thinking of the powers that be. Congratulations on this initiative.

* Unless the Catholic Church moves into the 21st century it will surely wither. The current philosophy adopted by the current hierarchy in Australia of 'condemning without understanding' has caused young people to leave the church in droves. The ultra conservatism and inflexibility of the hierarchy is rejected by the majority of catholics and potential followers aged 15 plus. I fully support the petition. Unless decisive action is taken the Catholic church will wither.

* Celibacy is the gnat and priest shortage is the camel in the way the Church is dealing with this issue. We're fussing with small issues and ignoring the important ones. If the Holy Spirit were to want the priesthood to be different how would the Bishops hear?

* I represent another wasted resource among the thousands of men and women of good will that the church does not want: married ex-priest, doctor of theology, who would gladly devote himself to the catholic community

* And how many of the clergy would agree with us as well?

* Do it for God's sake!

* It is time to let go! By right of our Baptism we are all called to Priesthood. Take a step forward in faith and love, not in fear

* Priests who have left the priesthood have many talents that should be utilised in various roles in the Church. Instead they seem to be ostracized. It seems a shame to waste such useful talents. I can live without women priests until such time as God wants us to be preists but we really could be deacons etc.

* Our church needs leadership at parish level - these basic communities will die without it . The kingdom cannot be proclaimed without appropriately trained and ordained leaders

* The number of vocations to the Priesthood and Religious life has collapsed over the last few decades. There is no doctrinal basis forbidding married men (and women) from ordination. I believe that the Church needs to read the "signs of the times" and the call by the laity to accept the need for married people to be admitted to ordained ministry and religious life in a new way. Tradition is not always the answer to problems of the age.

* I am nearly 40: younger than any priest in my diocese. I fear by the time my children are my age, parish life as I have known and treasured it will be gone for want of ordained ministers. I do pray for vocations, but maybe the suggestions of this petition are the way God will answer that prayer.

* I believe the role of women is a significant issue that needs to be addressed. We are living in the 21st century and we still do not have any significant leadership roles for women in the church - we need to be much more progressive on this front.

* I'd prefer keeping ordination of married men and ordination of women as separate issues. May God's will be done!

* Celibacy is surely not on a par with Sacraments!

* I wholeheartedly endorse this petition. The Church in Australia is in crisis. We need priests who can minister effectively to the Australian Church and we need to consider the excessive workload of our current priests. Our Church congregations are comprised of an overwhelming majority of women whose gifts need to be acknowledged through significant service in Church ministry.

* The church cannot go on as it is. Jesus challenged and broke down barriers in order to create change in the turmoil of his time. Here we are in 2007, and nothing has changed to address the changing face of Church today. What would Jesus say to that? It's about time!

* We are in Communion with the Maronite church that ordains married men. Are we merely tolerating their orders or do we genuinely recognise their priesthood? The Church is dying without priests and the old ones are struggling. The answer is not to import foreigners to minister to Aussies.

* Ordain married men, they have another perspective to add to family and community.

* Agree that the Catholic Church in Australia needs to consider any committed Catholic to the role of ministry, regardless of their gender or marital status!

* I can see no theological barrier to married priests and would welcome this move for many reasons, one of which is to make the ministry more viable for so many who would be very able and qualified to serve Christ and the Catholic community in that way.

* Have felt this for years. There are plenty of priests if we were to allow back those who have left , those who have had proven successful marriages and family, and many of who could be self-supporting and would not require Church finances to exist. Many leave because they are lonely and have very few people with whom to share their problem. When it's all said and done, some of the Apostles were married and this rule of celibacy is only a few hundred years old. I cannot understand why we welcome with open arms married ministers from other religions who wish to convert to Catholicism but on the other hand we wont allow former priests who have had successful marriages to come back to the priesthood. Double standards I believe. To add insult to injury the extremely conservative attitude does not allow former practicing priests to become lectors. Another hypocrisy I also believe !! Apart from the former priests, the Church could open the priesthood up to those married men who have also had successful marriages.

* have been saying this for a long time & agree with it 100\%. Times have changed especially in the last 200 years. MOVE with the times, I always say. It doesn't make the priests less holy just more committed. May God bless you & may Padre Pio inspire you....

* Please act soon

* Many men who would be interested in considering the priesthood but have been excluded through marriage, would be encouraged to come forward. This includes those who have experienced a conversion after marriage as well as those who once considered the priesthood but went on to marry. Also, young men who felt torn between marriage or priesthood would have no need to choose one over the other.

* Our parish priest asked us to sign, but he does not understand he would be busier if he had a wife and kids, maybe he needs more dedication to what he has signed up for instead of complaining. I heard Fr Chris Rilley speak 2 weeks ago maybe priests who want to get married should go and work for him for a time and they may not complain so much.

* If it is good enough for married men in other rites, such as Maronite and Melkite, to be ordained and good enough for convert religious ministers to be ordained (not just Anglican - a married Uniting Church minister was ordained a Catholic priest in Brisbane a few years ago), then surely married men in the Roman rite of Catholicism should be able to receive ordination. I am a 23 year old who is torn between marriage and priesthood. Whilst I regard the ordination of women as something that should be looked at later, it should be considered and not swept under the carpet. Remember that the first person to see (and therefore believe in) the resurrected Jesus, thereby making this person the first Christian, was a woman.

* You should also add the fact that the Church needs to modernize the approach to acceptance of homosexuals. I personally am from generation X and am disappointed and confused by the lack of acceptance of all members of society whether they are gay or straight. It seems to me in the eyes of the Church a loveless marriage between heterosexual couple is accepted more than a desperately in love gay couple. If the church doesn't feel this way and I am misinformed maybe the church should campaign to welcome back generation x and y with modernizing their messages.

* I fully endorse this petition. As a committed lay Catholic I feel that the time has come for our bishops to make a courageous decision which shows that they recognize the "sign of the times". Matrimony and Holy Orders should not be necessarily mutually exclusive for those who feel they have God's call to both.

* I would like their Lordships to at least consider the items put forward on these issues. I know they are obligated to Rome and I would not like to encourage 'breaking' away from our heritage, but, the situation is becoming critical and I know we have the Episcopate to at least consider the issues, before it is too late.

* These ideas have been voiced in our local groups for the last 25 years nd it seems at last that there are bishops who are willing to listen

* Celibacy has been a dubious blessing for a very long time. It is time the Church ate humble pie.

* Blind freddy can see this is essential

* We need our priests to be in a more pastoral role within their parish and not administrators. To consider elected parishioners to fulfill the role of administrators for each parish.

* If something does not change in the church's strategy Catholics in Australia will be left without reasonable access to Eucharist. Eucharist comes before compulsory celibacy. The church with its history of married Popes and married Bishops has a good story of faith lived and carried to the world. Just as an example is Pope Saint Anastasius 1 whose son became Saint Innocent 1, Gregory 1 the great doctor and pope of the Church was the great grandson of Pope Felix 111 and the great-great-grandson of Pope Felix 11. St Arnaud (580-640) the bishop of Metz was followed by his son Clondolf and was the great-great grand father of Charlemagne.[My parish is in St Arnaud named after the French General Jacques Leroy St Arnaud whose family took their name from the bishop of Metz.]

* I agree totally with this petition and the role of women in the church in Australia needs radical reform - women have always been the Catholic Churches greatest supporters - not for too much longer if reform is not forthcoming Fully endorse this petition - What are people afraid of !! The Catholic Church will come to terms with these important issues of leadership and service - hopefully in my life time - so sooner rather then later would be appreciated !!